Mess Magnets | Tortured Mess Department

[00:00:00] Hey, it's Rob. It was an amazing week of Survivor and we had incredible podcasts with Christian

[00:00:05] Hubicki and Steven on the Know-it-Alls. Make sure you catch those as well. Plus, The Circle

[00:00:11] was back this week with an AI contestant. Taryn, Mike Bloom and Pooja broke down the

[00:00:16] first week of drops from The Circle and on Renap. Who did Sam Moore find for the big

[00:00:22] guest? Find out on this week's Rob DeKeefe Anita Podcasts all right here on RHAP.

[00:00:27] We know Reality TV.

[00:00:44] Hi, I'm Kristen and I'm Maggie. And this is Mess Magnet on YouTube. Yay.

[00:00:52] So for anyone listening to the podcast version right now, you can just scoot over to the

[00:01:01] Rob Has a Podcast YouTube and you can see our faces while we discuss everything. The

[00:01:07] Tortured Poets Department, Taylor Swift's newest album. That's what we're here to

[00:01:13] talk about today. So not Swifties, I'm sorry. She is the monoculture and Sasha

[00:01:18] not here this week to stop me. So this is what we're doing.

[00:01:22] I'm so excited. Thank you so much for inviting me on. You know that I am like

[00:01:29] such a Swiftie, so I'm ready to get into all of it.

[00:01:33] Yes. And you joined us last year. Last year? Yes. When Midnights was released,

[00:01:38] which I can't believe that's only been like

[00:01:41] a year and a half.

[00:01:43] ago. That's wild. And so I thought, well, obviously, Maggie's our Swiftie

[00:01:48] correspondent. So

[00:01:50] oh my god, I'm like, you've never been so honored. I really, really love it. I

[00:01:53] have such strong feelings about her that are like, I do think slightly off

[00:01:58] the beaten path of regular Swifties. So I'm not like regular Swifties.

[00:02:04] No, I mean, I would never say that. Like I the actual Swifties, I think no

[00:02:11] more than I do. But I just feel a great kinship to her from like an artist

[00:02:18] perspective.

[00:02:19] Yes, and that's a good thing to bring because I am not an artist like that.

[00:02:25] So I don't have that same perspective. And

[00:02:29] it's we also just have like general differing beliefs on a lot of things

[00:02:33] about Taylor Swift, which is also good to have if we agreed about

[00:02:36] everything, it wouldn't necessarily be that fun to talk about.

[00:02:40] Definitely.

[00:02:41] And so I'm really glad you're here afterwards. I was like, Oh, should I

[00:02:44] have invited like more people to talk about like there's so many people who

[00:02:48] love Taylor Swift in the RGP family and I was like, Oh, should I have

[00:02:52] asked like all these other people to join and then I was like,

[00:02:56] not mess magnets. It's fine.

[00:03:03] Should we just should we just jump into it?

[00:03:05] Yes, I'm ready. And I'm sure that the conversation will take us in many

[00:03:09] different places. But I'm so ready.

[00:03:11] Yes. So overall, the torture post department came out on Friday. Well,

[00:03:16] what was your first impression? What's your overall thoughts of the album?

[00:03:20] Okay, so I just started working a nine to five job. So I could not stay

[00:03:25] up till midnight to listen. And I'm very glad I didn't because then I

[00:03:30] apparently would have been up until basically 330 in the morning

[00:03:32] listening to all of it with the double album. And I listened to all of

[00:03:38] it like through my workday on Friday. And I have a lot a lot of thoughts

[00:03:45] in general, I think that I have been like a Taylor Swift fan since I

[00:03:51] was you know, eighth grade, like loved her. I remember I think maybe

[00:03:55] when I was on for minutes, I told the story like, I remember laying

[00:03:58] in my parents bed scrolling through the channels and stopping on the

[00:04:01] CMT network to watch the video of her singing teardrops on my

[00:04:05] guitar in the green dress and being like, Who is that beautiful girl?

[00:04:09] Like I want to be her.

[00:04:10] You were there day one.

[00:04:12] Literally like I loved her so much. And this album to me is really

[00:04:17] really giving me like speak now vibes really giving me red vibes.

[00:04:24] But I think honestly a little bit more speak now. It really feels

[00:04:28] like this is a return to the writing on her bedroom floor situation.

[00:04:36] And, you know, I think that there's a lot of criticism, rightfully so.

[00:04:42] You know, I don't disagree with the criticism that it all sort of

[00:04:45] sounds similar and like people wish that she would have pushed

[00:04:49] herself a little bit more. But I have thoughts on that in the

[00:04:56] context that she went on the biggest world tour like that maybe

[00:05:03] has ever happened, right? Like the by all.

[00:05:06] It's not even over yet, baby.

[00:05:08] Exactly. Like there's a whole other leg. She was out there for

[00:05:12] three and a half hours a night performing essentially her entire

[00:05:15] catalog with precision, clean, you know, never skipping a beat

[00:05:21] performed entire like three hours in the rain for people watching

[00:05:26] her show. Like she was performing at the highest level of a pop

[00:05:31] star, right? So I absolutely understand why she wrote all of

[00:05:40] these songs and maybe didn't spend all of the time necessary

[00:05:45] to like clean it up or edit it down and just sort of like

[00:05:49] emotionally vomited out these songs and was like, Okay, go.

[00:05:53] You know, like she put polish into the tour. And she was

[00:05:58] doing this simultaneously. So I, I feel like in the context of

[00:06:06] where she's at as an artist, there's so much I feel like any

[00:06:13] artist in the world dreams of being at a place where they can

[00:06:18] just sort of do the art that they want, put it out and let

[00:06:22] it be what it is. And she has climbed to the top of the

[00:06:26] mountain and is at the top of the music industry and so many

[00:06:29] levels that she's, in my opinion, earned the right to

[00:06:33] maybe not produce the best album that she's ever made in

[00:06:37] terms of like, how edited down it is how much she's pushing

[00:06:42] herself musically, how much she's even pushing herself

[00:06:44] lyrically, how much she's exploring these emotions rather

[00:06:47] than just saying the way that she feels. But I do feel like

[00:06:52] she earned that right by everything else that she's been

[00:06:56] doing. And I'm really happy that this is what she gave us

[00:06:59] because let me tell you, even everybody's least favorite

[00:07:03] Taylor Swift album is still a great album, in my opinion.

[00:07:06] I'm not saying that this is the least favorite, but like,

[00:07:09] this is a great album. You know, not one of her my

[00:07:12] favorites or I personally think one of her best, but it's a

[00:07:16] great album.

[00:07:17] Yeah, I think that a lot of the lack of like editing down and

[00:07:22] stuff, I don't even know if I'd put it to being so busy and

[00:07:25] whatever. I think it comes from with the Taylor's version

[00:07:30] versions that she released all these songs came out of the

[00:07:33] vault. And listen, did they all have to come out of the

[00:07:38] vault? Right? They didn't like there's probably like one

[00:07:41] to two really great vault songs on every album, right?

[00:07:44] And it's like, that kind of makes it worth getting all

[00:07:46] of the other vault songs that you maybe don't like as much or

[00:07:48] you don't really listen to. Yeah, in my opinion, like

[00:07:51] getting like is it over now is worth the not so good ones.

[00:07:56] And I am talking about you slut. I didn't like that song.

[00:08:03] Is it over now is going to be my number one most played

[00:08:05] song on Spotify this year and it is only April. So I

[00:08:08] love that for you. I love it. But I do think that by

[00:08:12] like releasing all these vault songs and everyone getting so

[00:08:14] obsessed with them. It's like the spectacle of Taylor Swift

[00:08:18] has grown to be so much more than what she has as an artist

[00:08:22] or as a person, or as a performer, that it's almost

[00:08:25] like she has to keep upping the ante and doing all this

[00:08:28] nonsense with like a double album at 2am. Because she

[00:08:33] needs to keep that you know, that spectacle alive is

[00:08:36] kind of the vibe. I even though I'm on the west coast

[00:08:40] and I could have started listening at 9pm I listened to

[00:08:43] the first two songs and then went to bed because I am a

[00:08:46] sleepy girl and I listened to them in the morning. But I do

[00:08:51] think that something that the torture post department has

[00:08:54] that might be like above some of Taylor's other albums is

[00:08:58] it is a really great album to listen to while you work

[00:09:01] an office job all day. Like, you are not really going

[00:09:04] to get too distracted by like more than a couple of

[00:09:07] songs. And it just kind of flows and all of a sudden

[00:09:10] you look up and it's lunchtime and you've done all this

[00:09:12] work and listen to that. Like I do really like it for

[00:09:15] listening while working.

[00:09:18] That's a great point. I'll have to try that sometime this

[00:09:20] week. I'll have to put in my headphones and listen to the

[00:09:23] whole thing front to back. Um, I so I have a couple of

[00:09:29] 50 friends as well. And my best friend, Lincoln, not to

[00:09:37] tell his business, but he really loves folklore and

[00:09:40] evermore. He doesn't like Midnight's as much like he's

[00:09:43] much more, you know, the Aaron Destiner, Swiftie of it all.

[00:09:48] And I asked him what he thought of the album and he

[00:09:51] was like, my biggest issue with it is that it's just

[00:09:54] very dense. Like I think that she is it's so about

[00:10:00] the lyrics that the music gets kind of lost. And I

[00:10:04] think that that's sort of what you're saying, Kirsten,

[00:10:05] like the music gets kind of lost so you can do it when

[00:10:09] you're doing your office job, you know. But I also

[00:10:13] think, you know, and we'll talk about this more

[00:10:15] throughout the podcast, but like everything that she

[00:10:18] said about this album is she said, like, I had to

[00:10:21] make this, like this was really, really important

[00:10:24] for me to produce and put out there. And I think

[00:10:30] that there really is something to that in terms of how

[00:10:35] lyrically dense it is, how emotionally raw it is.

[00:10:39] Like it's very raw. I feel like I read her diary

[00:10:43] kind of when it was over.

[00:10:44] And like, sometimes in a good way and sometimes

[00:10:47] in a bad way, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

[00:10:49] sometimes I need to know all that.

[00:10:51] Yeah, I think also, like, should we talk about

[00:10:57] our our favorite songs and our least favorite

[00:11:00] songs? Or should we save that?

[00:11:02] Let's talk about our favorite and least

[00:11:03] favorite songs.

[00:11:04] Okay, so I really my favorite song on the whole

[00:11:09] album is The Black Dog.

[00:11:12] A good choice. Excellent choice.

[00:11:14] I really, really love that one. Because in my

[00:11:19] opinion, I love that one. I really love So

[00:11:21] Long London as well. And I think it's because

[00:11:25] both of those songs, in my opinion, are less

[00:11:30] her describing her pain and more her talking

[00:11:35] about this complex emotion that she has.

[00:11:39] That is like, I just feel like there's more

[00:11:42] emotions to the song, those two songs in

[00:11:45] particular, rather than like, oh my god, I

[00:11:50] really like this guy or oh my god, screw this

[00:11:53] guy or I'm so sad. I'm down bad. I'm crying

[00:11:56] at the gym. You know, like, I feel like both

[00:11:59] of those songs are incredibly layered. And

[00:12:03] specifically with The Black Dog, I just I just

[00:12:06] feel like she went into my brain and like

[00:12:10] picked out the way that I feel and wrote it

[00:12:13] down and put it in musical form and gave it

[00:12:15] to me like, it's just so relatable to have

[00:12:19] too much access to somebody that you

[00:12:21] shouldn't have access to anymore. And have

[00:12:24] all of these things flooding your head like

[00:12:27] do you not miss me? Are you kidding me? Who

[00:12:29] are you there with like, you're coming up with

[00:12:31] all these scenarios. And then also at one point

[00:12:34] realizing you're being too dramatic. So you're

[00:12:36] like, Well, you know what, I just hope you

[00:12:38] have a shitty time. I don't want to think

[00:12:40] about this anymore. So I just hope you have

[00:12:41] a good time. I hope you have a terrible

[00:12:42] time. Goodbye.

[00:12:44] Okay, I really like The Black Dog too. It's

[00:12:46] not my favorite. But I relate to it a little

[00:12:49] bit. And I think that this is something I

[00:12:52] think of like, okay, I feel like Taylor

[00:12:54] Swift in relationships is so wifey, you know,

[00:12:58] like she is wifey. And I don't I don't need

[00:13:01] to say anything more than other people who

[00:13:02] get it get it and the people that don't

[00:13:04] don't. But here's the thing. I'm wifey. And

[00:13:07] I feel like you're wifey too. So I feel

[00:13:09] like you get it from that way where it's

[00:13:12] like, even when if you're dating someone

[00:13:17] and it's more of like a situationship or

[00:13:19] it's not that serious or whatever, I feel

[00:13:21] like and this is me totally imprinting on

[00:13:25] Taylor Swift being like totally toxic and

[00:13:27] weird. But like, I feel like it's the type

[00:13:30] of vibe where like you're in it with

[00:13:31] something someone was something that's

[00:13:33] like not that serious. And that person

[00:13:34] will be like, Oh my god, like why did

[00:13:36] I have to meet someone like you right

[00:13:38] now? Because oh my god, you're so

[00:13:40] amazing and blah, blah, blah, blah. But

[00:13:43] then like all here's all the reasons

[00:13:44] why it's just like going to be another

[00:13:45] bullshit experience, right? As I feel

[00:13:48] like that's kind of the vibe The Black

[00:13:50] Child gives me and I feel like I could

[00:13:51] see that also happening to you

[00:13:53] unfortunately, because you're wifey.

[00:13:56] Well, I just think that, um, like I,

[00:14:00] I'm gonna be honest, I had a hard time

[00:14:03] relating to parts of this album,

[00:14:06] which like is crazy, right? Because

[00:14:08] she's just writing about heartbreak

[00:14:10] and like everybody's had their

[00:14:11] heart broken. And she's

[00:14:13] this one was weird. This one was

[00:14:15] different. Yeah, it really, I there

[00:14:18] were songs that I was like, Oh, what's

[00:14:21] going on? Like I, and that's why maybe

[00:14:23] so long London and the black dog

[00:14:25] resonated with me because I was like,

[00:14:27] Okay, I can tap into this. Like I

[00:14:29] have felt this before personally, I

[00:14:31] know exactly what I'm following her.

[00:14:33] How about that? Like her storytelling

[00:14:36] is crafted in this way that I am

[00:14:39] following this journey. And even if I

[00:14:41] haven't felt this exact thing, you

[00:14:44] know, like so long London, she talks

[00:14:45] about leaving her friends behind for

[00:14:48] this person doing all of that. Like

[00:14:50] there, there were lyrics in that that

[00:14:52] I had a friend text me and be like,

[00:14:53] Oh my gosh, this lyric I loved

[00:14:55] because X, Y, and Z. And I couldn't

[00:14:56] personally relate to it, but I

[00:14:58] followed the story. And there were

[00:15:00] just some songs that I was like,

[00:15:03] I don't know that there is an

[00:15:07] narrative here other than like, how

[00:15:10] could you do this to me? You

[00:15:12] know?

[00:15:13] Yes, I do get that. I can't remember

[00:15:16] which song it's on right now. I think

[00:15:21] it, it might be so long London. I

[00:15:24] don't know. It's also a very

[00:15:26] difficult album to like learn the

[00:15:27] lyrics to because there's so many.

[00:15:29] But there's one where she talks

[00:15:31] about like feeling sorry that she

[00:15:32] gave away all this youth for free.

[00:15:34] Yeah, that's so long.

[00:15:36] Yeah. And that it's just like, I'm

[00:15:37] like, I heard that. I think that

[00:15:42] I think came. I think my favorite

[00:15:46] song through the first couple of

[00:15:49] listens and like, this is going

[00:15:50] to change and it's gonna change

[00:15:51] like 100 times. But I think my

[00:15:53] first inclination for a favorite

[00:15:54] song was The Smallest Man Who

[00:15:56] Ever Lived. I just really like

[00:15:57] the way it sounds. I get the

[00:15:59] message. I understand what's

[00:16:01] happening. I like it a lot. Do

[00:16:06] you have a least favorite song?

[00:16:08] No, because I probably couldn't

[00:16:11] even say the name of it. It's

[00:16:13] just I think these favorites are

[00:16:14] the ones that just kind of run

[00:16:15] together, you know, that I'm

[00:16:18] having a hard time distinguishing

[00:16:19] from the other ones.

[00:16:21] Like I'm looking through the

[00:16:23] track listing for the anthology

[00:16:24] to be like, what's my least

[00:16:25] favorite? I'm like, well,

[00:16:26] like, I guess it's Robin,

[00:16:28] because I don't remember there

[00:16:30] being a song called Robin and

[00:16:31] I couldn't tell you what song

[00:16:33] it is. Like, I guess that one,

[00:16:34] but I probably don't hate it. I

[00:16:35] just don't know it yet.

[00:16:36] Exactly. I can't imagine that

[00:16:38] there's going to be like, I

[00:16:40] hate very few Taylor songs. Like,

[00:16:43] I really even the ones that

[00:16:44] aren't my favorite, I'm like,

[00:16:46] they're not like automatic

[00:16:48] skips always, you know,

[00:16:49] sometimes I just am not in the

[00:16:50] mood. But I think that this

[00:16:54] also happens to me, like,

[00:16:56] I'm not going to act like I'm

[00:16:58] this amazing music person who

[00:17:01] knows, like, a lot of the

[00:17:02] times when I listen to an

[00:17:04] album, the first time through

[00:17:05] all the songs kind of sound

[00:17:06] the same to me because if

[00:17:07] you've created a cohesive album,

[00:17:09] it's like a collection of songs

[00:17:11] that live in the same universe.

[00:17:13] So I imagine that through

[00:17:15] the next couple of months of

[00:17:17] listening, I will be able to

[00:17:19] distinguish especially those

[00:17:20] back half songs much easier

[00:17:23] from one another. But yeah,

[00:17:26] I did not love the

[00:17:30] tortured poets department,

[00:17:31] the title track.

[00:17:33] Okay, I felt that way on the

[00:17:36] first listen. But then when I

[00:17:38] was listening today, after I

[00:17:39] listened to it like all day,

[00:17:41] Friday and Monday and Tuesday,

[00:17:43] I was like, Oh, I'm kind of

[00:17:45] into it now. So like, it

[00:17:46] could come back around. And

[00:17:47] all I can think back to is

[00:17:49] like, I remember and I

[00:17:51] remember this so viscerally,

[00:17:53] I remember the day reputation

[00:17:55] was released, and I was so

[00:17:56] excited. And I hadn't like

[00:17:58] loved Look what you make me

[00:17:59] do. Look what you made me

[00:18:00] do. But like, I was I was

[00:18:02] in I was ready. And I would

[00:18:05] look I listened to like 15

[00:18:06] seconds of every song and

[00:18:07] skipped them all and was

[00:18:08] like, I don't like this

[00:18:08] album. And then just like,

[00:18:10] didn't go back to it for

[00:18:11] years and years. And then

[00:18:12] when I went back to it, I

[00:18:13] was like, huh? Well, what

[00:18:16] was I think like, what was

[00:18:17] 2017 me thinking like this

[00:18:19] album is riddled with

[00:18:20] bops. And it's probably

[00:18:21] one of my top Taylor albums

[00:18:23] now. So like, you never

[00:18:24] know how things are going to

[00:18:26] grow and change the more you

[00:18:27] listen to it. Absolutely. And

[00:18:28] I think, you know, people

[00:18:30] are used to certain sounds

[00:18:33] and certain stories from an

[00:18:35] artist and like, especially

[00:18:37] musical artists, and

[00:18:38] especially someone like her.

[00:18:40] And I do think like the

[00:18:41] critique that this felt

[00:18:42] like more of the same,

[00:18:43] like, I do understand

[00:18:46] that. But I also do think

[00:18:49] it's kind of untrue. I

[00:18:51] think this is a very

[00:18:53] different album than

[00:18:54] anything that she's really

[00:18:55] ever done. I just think

[00:18:59] that like, like I said,

[00:19:02] I think it's just way

[00:19:03] denser because she hasn't

[00:19:04] had as much artistic

[00:19:07] freedom to just do what

[00:19:09] she wants to do. And like

[00:19:12] I said, at the top of

[00:19:13] this, I do I think that

[00:19:16] maybe she made all of the

[00:19:18] exact correct artistic

[00:19:19] choices in this? No. But

[00:19:22] like, so what she did a

[00:19:26] gigantic she did the

[00:19:27] tour. She's been doing

[00:19:28] all of these re recordings.

[00:19:30] She very clearly was

[00:19:31] feeling isolated and alone

[00:19:33] and so sad and wanted to

[00:19:34] write music with her

[00:19:35] friends because this is

[00:19:36] her therapy. Like, then

[00:19:38] this is what we got. And

[00:19:39] like you said, Kirsten,

[00:19:40] some of it you're like,

[00:19:41] oh my gosh, Kimberly,

[00:19:42] you're putting this out

[00:19:43] here to the public. Like

[00:19:44] I do think she should go

[00:19:46] to real therapy. I think

[00:19:48] it was in the time

[00:19:50] interview for person of

[00:19:52] the year where she said

[00:19:53] like, Oh, I've never

[00:19:54] been to therapy. I feel

[00:19:55] very sane. And I'm like,

[00:19:56] girl, well, I we all

[00:19:59] need therapy. But like

[00:20:00] you're in such an

[00:20:01] exceptional situation. Like

[00:20:02] you got to have someone

[00:20:03] to talk to about it.

[00:20:05] That's like certified.

[00:20:07] Yeah, I mean, I can't

[00:20:09] imagine being her and

[00:20:11] walking outside of her

[00:20:12] door and having like even

[00:20:14] those of her and Travis

[00:20:15] at Coachella where it

[00:20:16] was a wall of phones. I

[00:20:18] was like, Oh my gosh,

[00:20:19] that's giving me anxiety

[00:20:20] just looking at it like

[00:20:22] it's so um, but yeah,

[00:20:25] I I mean, I do really

[00:20:28] like the album like I

[00:20:29] finished it and was like

[00:20:30] I love this. Um, I will

[00:20:33] not argue with somebody

[00:20:35] who comes up and says I

[00:20:37] don't like it because of

[00:20:38] like, you know, the

[00:20:38] reasons that we just

[00:20:39] laid out, I would be

[00:20:40] like, okay, you know,

[00:20:41] that's absolutely like

[00:20:43] I understand what you're

[00:20:45] saying. Um, but I was

[00:20:48] affected by it and I

[00:20:50] probably will continue

[00:20:51] to be affected by it,

[00:20:52] especially the next

[00:20:52] couple of years, but

[00:20:54] you're going back to

[00:20:54] it through other

[00:20:55] heartbreaks than you

[00:20:56] know, other moments in

[00:20:58] my life. I'm sure that

[00:20:58] I'll go back to it

[00:20:59] and be like, why did

[00:21:00] I not love Peter when

[00:21:02] it came out the first

[00:21:03] time? And it's like,

[00:21:04] well, you know,

[00:21:05] because it just didn't

[00:21:06] apply to you like that.

[00:21:07] And that's the other

[00:21:08] thing too. Um, my

[00:21:09] biggest complaint with

[00:21:10] society as a whole

[00:21:11] right now is that

[00:21:12] everybody has lost the

[00:21:13] ability to act normal.

[00:21:15] It's really like

[00:21:16] lately it's really

[00:21:17] been irritating me

[00:21:18] because you will see

[00:21:19] people saying things

[00:21:20] and acting in ways.

[00:21:21] And it's like, what

[00:21:23] happened? We used to

[00:21:25] be a society and

[00:21:27] like, I don't

[00:21:27] understand. And so I

[00:21:28] feel like we've

[00:21:30] gone to a point and

[00:21:32] it's not just the

[00:21:32] Taylor Swift.

[00:21:33] It's like everyone

[00:21:34] where Stan culture

[00:21:35] is so out of

[00:21:35] control, where even

[00:21:36] if you are like

[00:21:37] a big fan of

[00:21:38] something like I'm

[00:21:39] a Swiftie. Me too.

[00:21:42] It's like, oh,

[00:21:42] well, you can't

[00:21:43] say anything

[00:21:43] critical about anything

[00:21:44] Taylor's ever done

[00:21:45] or any music she's

[00:21:46] ever released or

[00:21:47] you're a hater

[00:21:47] and like you

[00:21:48] hate women. Like

[00:21:50] I made a tweet

[00:21:51] on Friday that was

[00:21:51] like, someone really

[00:21:52] needs to like

[00:21:53] tell her no

[00:21:54] sometimes because I

[00:21:55] think she's

[00:21:55] going to pass

[00:21:56] the point where

[00:21:56] people ever tell

[00:21:57] her no.

[00:21:58] And people are like,

[00:21:59] wow, I guess you're

[00:21:59] a woman hater.

[00:22:01] Huh? Okay.

[00:22:03] That's where we're

[00:22:04] at.

[00:22:04] I actually think

[00:22:05] that like she

[00:22:07] tells herself no

[00:22:08] all the time.

[00:22:09] I think that

[00:22:09] that's like,

[00:22:10] no, I'm serious.

[00:22:11] Like I think that

[00:22:12] that is she's

[00:22:13] incredibly self editing.

[00:22:15] She's incredibly

[00:22:16] like she is in

[00:22:17] the relentless

[00:22:17] pursuit of writing

[00:22:19] top notch songs

[00:22:20] like always.

[00:22:21] I feel like

[00:22:22] that's why her song

[00:22:22] writing is as good

[00:22:24] as it is like

[00:22:25] she pushes herself

[00:22:26] to

[00:22:28] work in a specific

[00:22:30] way.

[00:22:31] And I think

[00:22:32] that in this

[00:22:33] situation,

[00:22:33] she truly was

[00:22:34] just writing

[00:22:36] her soul like

[00:22:37] bearing her soul

[00:22:38] and just decided

[00:22:39] that like

[00:22:40] I'm at a point

[00:22:41] where I don't

[00:22:42] have to worry

[00:22:42] about charting

[00:22:43] right now.

[00:22:43] I don't have

[00:22:44] to worry about,

[00:22:45] you know,

[00:22:45] like is this

[00:22:46] all going to go away?

[00:22:47] Like I'm going

[00:22:48] to do a whole other

[00:22:48] leg of this tour.

[00:22:50] I can just put

[00:22:51] out this thing

[00:22:52] that is meaningful

[00:22:53] to me and I don't

[00:22:54] it doesn't have to be

[00:22:55] the most boundary

[00:22:56] pushing,

[00:22:57] unbelievable,

[00:22:58] you know,

[00:22:58] like it can just be

[00:23:00] something I want to do.

[00:23:01] And I think that

[00:23:01] that's such an

[00:23:02] amazing place as

[00:23:03] an artist to be

[00:23:04] and like a really

[00:23:05] beautiful,

[00:23:06] you know,

[00:23:06] yes,

[00:23:07] art branding thing

[00:23:08] to do.

[00:23:08] And it is beautiful.

[00:23:09] But then you

[00:23:10] think about the

[00:23:10] other artists

[00:23:11] who are also

[00:23:12] at the top of the game

[00:23:12] who don't have

[00:23:13] that,

[00:23:13] you know,

[00:23:14] privilege,

[00:23:14] which is unfortunate,

[00:23:15] right?

[00:23:17] So I don't know,

[00:23:17] but it's fine.

[00:23:18] Anyways,

[00:23:19] what I'm trying to say

[00:23:19] is you can love

[00:23:20] something and still

[00:23:21] have valid

[00:23:22] criticisms of that

[00:23:23] thing because nothing

[00:23:24] in this world is perfect.

[00:23:25] And can we?

[00:23:26] I beg.

[00:23:27] I know I don't have to

[00:23:28] tell the messengers this,

[00:23:29] but can we please

[00:23:29] just act normal

[00:23:31] for once in our lives?

[00:23:36] Since J&K Security

[00:23:38] Solutions opened

[00:23:39] in 1987,

[00:23:40] our attention to detail

[00:23:41] and customer service

[00:23:42] have been our strongest assets.

[00:23:44] I'm President

[00:23:44] Jeffrey Beckman.

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[00:23:48] effective solution

[00:23:49] to every job we tackle,

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[00:24:01] Let's work together

[00:24:02] to secure your home

[00:24:03] or business.

[00:24:03] Jksecurity.com.

[00:24:07] For nearly four decades,

[00:24:08] J&K Security Solutions

[00:24:09] has provided protection

[00:24:11] for homes and businesses.

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[00:24:13] I'm Jeff Beckman

[00:24:14] and with my wife, Kim,

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[00:24:30] takes over as president.

[00:24:32] Let us protect

[00:24:32] what is valuable to you.

[00:24:34] Jksecurity.com.

[00:24:38] Since J&K Security Solutions

[00:24:40] opened in 1987,

[00:24:41] our attention to detail

[00:24:43] and customer service

[00:24:44] have been our strongest assets.

[00:24:45] I'm President

[00:24:46] Jeffrey Beckman.

[00:24:47] We'll always do our best

[00:24:48] to find the most efficient

[00:24:49] and cost effective solution

[00:24:50] to every job we tackle,

[00:24:52] whether it's security

[00:24:53] for your home or business,

[00:24:54] installing video surveillance

[00:24:56] or being able to control

[00:24:57] your garage doors from your phone.

[00:24:59] We can help you feel empowered

[00:25:00] with simple

[00:25:01] and user friendly technology.

[00:25:03] Let's work together

[00:25:03] to secure your home or business.

[00:25:05] Jksecurity.com.

[00:25:09] Since J&K Security Solutions

[00:25:11] opened in 1987,

[00:25:12] our attention to detail

[00:25:14] and customer service

[00:25:15] have been our strongest assets.

[00:25:16] I'm President Jeffrey Beckman.

[00:25:18] We'll always do our best

[00:25:19] to find the most efficient

[00:25:20] and cost effective solution

[00:25:21] to every job we tackle,

[00:25:23] whether it's security

[00:25:24] for your home or business,

[00:25:25] installing video surveillance

[00:25:27] or being able to control

[00:25:28] your garage doors from your phone.

[00:25:30] We can help you feel empowered

[00:25:31] with simple

[00:25:31] and user friendly technology.

[00:25:33] Let's work together

[00:25:34] to secure your home or business.

[00:25:36] Jksecurity.com.

[00:25:40] OK, let's go back

[00:25:43] to the period in time

[00:25:44] before this album

[00:25:47] even existed.

[00:25:48] Let's talk about all of this stuff

[00:25:50] that will not all this stuff,

[00:25:51] because as everyone

[00:25:52] listening to this podcast knows

[00:25:54] and you know, the Swifties

[00:25:55] be theorizing and they will cling

[00:25:58] to like the smallest shred

[00:26:00] of anything and create

[00:26:01] like the wildest murderboard

[00:26:04] of a theory you've ever seen

[00:26:05] in your life.

[00:26:05] So like we can't do all of it,

[00:26:07] but pre-release.

[00:26:09] So obviously she really

[00:26:10] she announced the album

[00:26:11] while she was accepting

[00:26:12] her Grammy Award this year.

[00:26:15] I can't remember

[00:26:16] what she won two Grammys.

[00:26:17] I can't even remember

[00:26:17] which one it was for.

[00:26:19] I think it was vocal album.

[00:26:21] And yeah,

[00:26:22] it was during pop vocal album

[00:26:23] because she didn't think

[00:26:24] she was going to win album of the year.

[00:26:25] So they really took

[00:26:27] they gave her

[00:26:27] her 13th and 14th Grammys together

[00:26:29] so she couldn't just like be happy

[00:26:31] with crazy.

[00:26:34] But so she announced it

[00:26:35] at the Grammys.

[00:26:36] We talked about that when it happened.

[00:26:38] And then shortly after

[00:26:40] in February,

[00:26:41] when she was performing in Melbourne,

[00:26:42] she said on stage

[00:26:44] I needed to make it.

[00:26:45] It was really a lifeline for me.

[00:26:47] It sort of reminded me

[00:26:48] why songwriting gets me through life.

[00:26:50] I've never had an album

[00:26:51] where I needed songwriting

[00:26:53] more than I needed it

[00:26:54] on Tortured Poet.

[00:26:55] So that kind of

[00:26:56] sets the stage.

[00:26:58] Yes.

[00:26:59] As well in February,

[00:27:01] the full track list of

[00:27:03] well, the first half

[00:27:04] of Tortured Poet's Department

[00:27:06] was released way earlier

[00:27:08] than Taylor's ever released

[00:27:10] a full track list,

[00:27:11] including features.

[00:27:12] And it was definitely

[00:27:14] because someone accurately

[00:27:15] leaked it on TikTok.

[00:27:16] So someone for sure

[00:27:18] lost their job over that one.

[00:27:19] Well, also,

[00:27:20] the thing that's so funny is like

[00:27:22] I don't

[00:27:25] like I'm such a Swiftie

[00:27:27] and I'm so grateful

[00:27:28] to the other Swifties

[00:27:29] who like do the work

[00:27:31] to do the theories

[00:27:33] and like all of it,

[00:27:33] because I don't really

[00:27:35] have time for that.

[00:27:36] Like I just like I said,

[00:27:38] I'm working this nine to five job.

[00:27:39] Like I can't, you know,

[00:27:40] be looking for all these Easter

[00:27:41] eggs all over the country.

[00:27:44] But

[00:27:45] some I'm certainly not seeing them

[00:27:47] where there are none.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] Well,

[00:27:50] she would post

[00:27:52] on her Instagram story

[00:27:53] these song titles

[00:27:55] that then I would go back to

[00:27:57] like the track list

[00:27:59] that she released and be like,

[00:28:00] well, this song is not even on there.

[00:28:02] Like what is she talking about?

[00:28:03] Or like

[00:28:04] I was so confused

[00:28:05] and she was releasing

[00:28:07] the title or the title of the tracks

[00:28:09] for the second album and

[00:28:12] right under our noses.

[00:28:14] Yeah.

[00:28:14] And she was she also like

[00:28:15] every couple of shows on the like Asia

[00:28:19] and Australia leg of the era's tour,

[00:28:21] she'd be like, oh, and also

[00:28:22] here's a new edition of the album

[00:28:24] with this new song.

[00:28:25] And it's like enough.

[00:28:27] Enough is enough.

[00:28:28] Just listen,

[00:28:29] tell me when the album's out

[00:28:30] and I'll listen to it

[00:28:31] because I get my like

[00:28:33] there's this one particular

[00:28:34] tick tocker where every time

[00:28:36] I see his face,

[00:28:37] I know I'm about to hear

[00:28:38] the most unhinged stuff

[00:28:40] I've ever heard in my life

[00:28:41] and I'm going to believe it all.

[00:28:42] So I just I know when I see him,

[00:28:44] what's going to happen.

[00:28:45] So I'll just wait for him

[00:28:45] to break it down.

[00:28:47] Another thing that happened on TikTok

[00:28:50] and I don't actually know

[00:28:51] if this is real or I'm had a logical

[00:28:53] verifying if this was a real video

[00:28:56] or AI or what.

[00:28:59] But basically there's a video

[00:29:00] that a tick tocker posted

[00:29:01] where they had seen Joe and Taylor

[00:29:02] in a restaurant together.

[00:29:04] And it looks like Joe

[00:29:05] was like pointing at her

[00:29:06] and saying, you don't get

[00:29:07] to tell me about sad.

[00:29:09] I don't know if it's real or not.

[00:29:12] But I saw the tick tock

[00:29:14] and I couldn't verify

[00:29:15] if it was true or not.

[00:29:16] So take it with a huge grain of salt.

[00:29:19] I also have to say

[00:29:22] that, you know,

[00:29:25] we all thought this album

[00:29:28] was going to be all about Joe.

[00:29:32] And it appears there are.

[00:29:36] No many songs at all about Joe

[00:29:39] and they're much nicer

[00:29:40] than the other songs on the album.

[00:29:43] Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:44] Basically, the vibe I'm getting from online

[00:29:47] is like Taylor has called Joe broke

[00:29:50] and she's called Joe inattentive

[00:29:53] and she's called Joe like depressed.

[00:29:55] And that's basically the extent of it.

[00:29:57] Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure

[00:30:01] the manuscript is yet another song

[00:30:03] about Jake Gyllenhaal.

[00:30:04] So like

[00:30:06] we know we know which men

[00:30:08] have been the worst and I think Joe's one of them.

[00:30:11] You know, and I think that that's why

[00:30:13] maybe those songs that are like clearly about Joe

[00:30:19] did interest me more,

[00:30:20] because I do think that those emotions

[00:30:22] are much more difficult to express.

[00:30:25] Like, what's the lyric

[00:30:28] that she has an evermore like?

[00:30:30] A good man hurts you and you know,

[00:30:33] you hurt him too, like,

[00:30:35] I think that there's

[00:30:38] so much complexity

[00:30:40] to that relationship and why it ended.

[00:30:43] And it appears based off of what she's told us through song

[00:30:46] that like it did need to end.

[00:30:47] But it seems like it ended with more of like

[00:30:51] a whimper than with like a big crash and burn.

[00:30:55] And that makes sense with like a it's a six year relationship.

[00:30:59] I've had a seven year relationship in the past

[00:31:01] when something that long term ends.

[00:31:04] It's kind of over like a long time

[00:31:07] before someone finally pulls the plug and is like, it's over.

[00:31:10] Like nothing built for that long breaks in one day.

[00:31:15] Yeah, even like even if someone had done

[00:31:18] something so horrible that it's like you can't move past it.

[00:31:23] That doesn't happen in one day and it doesn't end like in one go,

[00:31:26] because there's this total sunk cost fallacy as well as just the complexity

[00:31:31] of two people who build their lives together and live together

[00:31:35] and are planning towards the future together where

[00:31:38] when it doesn't happen the way you thought it would happen

[00:31:42] or what you expect, it doesn't happen.

[00:31:45] Like that's it's difficult to parse out.

[00:31:47] And I think that that's maybe why, like I said,

[00:31:50] the storytelling in those songs is intrigued me more

[00:31:56] because I was like, what the you

[00:32:00] she may personally feel like the chapter is closed,

[00:32:05] but I do think like it's less cut and dry what went on there,

[00:32:09] which is why those songs to me, I'm like, oh, like, what do you like?

[00:32:14] There's resentment, but also sadness,

[00:32:16] but also clearly a lot of care still being given there.

[00:32:19] Like that to me is where her songwriting

[00:32:24] on the album shines versus the songs where she's just like,

[00:32:29] I screw you forever.

[00:32:31] You know, yes, 100 percent.

[00:32:34] And so I guess like continuing to speak about Joe and everything.

[00:32:38] So before the album came out, like early last week,

[00:32:41] she released a bunch of exclusive playlists of her

[00:32:45] or like her own music on Apple Music.

[00:32:49] The playlists are called You Don't Get To Tell Me About Sad.

[00:32:53] I Can Do It With A Broken Heart.

[00:32:55] Am I Allowed To Cry?

[00:32:57] I Love You It's Ruining My Life and Old Habits Die Screaming.

[00:33:01] The playlist corresponded with the five stages of grief,

[00:33:04] denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

[00:33:09] And she did like a little like voice memo intro to all of them.

[00:33:14] And it's just.

[00:33:18] It's recontextualized some of past albums.

[00:33:22] And I think that the Tortured Poets Department as a whole

[00:33:24] recontextualizes a lot of her past songs that we maybe thought

[00:33:28] were one thing, but might be something else.

[00:33:31] But in particular, it rebrands some of the previous love songs as

[00:33:36] denial and delusional.

[00:33:38] For example, the song Lover is on I Love You It's Ruining My Life,

[00:33:43] which is like a blow to the Lover Girlies.

[00:33:48] So I'm going to be honest.

[00:33:52] Like, OK, like, all right, Taylor, like these are also,

[00:33:57] you know, when you like she has said herself that

[00:34:04] the way that fans interact with songs change meanings of when she wrote them,

[00:34:10] like the way that she views them now are so different.

[00:34:12] And like clearly she went through this very traumatic period,

[00:34:16] traumatic tumultuous period of time.

[00:34:18] She may be angry at people that she wrote these songs previously about,

[00:34:22] you know, like her feelings about the situations may have changed.

[00:34:26] But like. That it's the same thing as like when an author writes a book

[00:34:33] and then comes out later and is like, actually, you know,

[00:34:37] the two people who I put together, who everybody loves together,

[00:34:40] I don't think that I should have done that.

[00:34:41] And that was dumb.

[00:34:42] Like and everybody's like, are you kidding?

[00:34:44] Like, it's like let it be.

[00:34:47] Well, I think it's just like the art belongs to

[00:34:51] the the people who are consuming it at that point,

[00:34:54] like once you put it into the world to be consumed.

[00:34:58] And I think that, like, I think she would probably agree with this statement.

[00:35:02] Honestly, like, I don't think that, like,

[00:35:04] she's always been the type of person who's like,

[00:35:06] it means what you want it to mean, you know, like, don't go through like.

[00:35:10] Yeah, it's fun to go through and like figure out who it's about.

[00:35:13] But like, it's a story that I'm telling, you know? Mm hmm.

[00:35:17] The other thing, too, is like.

[00:35:19] If you look back, like reputation and lover are kind of

[00:35:24] together and.

[00:35:27] Lover is like, like reputation is full of love songs.

[00:35:32] It's really not like this actually like that angry of an album,

[00:35:36] like it's very, very much full of love songs and lover.

[00:35:40] A lot of those songs seem to be already mourning the muse from reputation.

[00:35:44] So I also think that, like.

[00:35:47] We don't even necessarily know if that means it's about Joe or what,

[00:35:50] like it just is like and lover is like a song riddled with anxiety,

[00:35:54] like, can I go where you go?

[00:35:56] Like, I want all your summer like.

[00:35:59] OK, like it's fine.

[00:36:01] We don't have to do this.

[00:36:03] Yeah. And also, like,

[00:36:05] I think that the thing for me that made me be like, OK,

[00:36:09] you know, I think that I'm just going to have to agree

[00:36:11] to disagree with Miss Taylor here on these is like sweet.

[00:36:14] Nothing was on her denial playlist.

[00:36:17] And that song like I really love that song.

[00:36:22] I think that's one of the most beautifully romantic songs.

[00:36:24] She's ever written.

[00:36:26] But, you know, I think a lot of people could interpret that as like

[00:36:29] she's saying all they've ever wanted for me is nothing.

[00:36:31] Like, I think for a lot of people, that's not something that they would want.

[00:36:34] But like I took that song to mean something differently.

[00:36:38] And like it's like I said, very meaningful to me, incredibly romantic.

[00:36:42] And I was just like, OK, you know, if that's the way that she

[00:36:47] maybe views the song or or thought conceptually,

[00:36:51] it would be a cool thing to do to make these lists and sort.

[00:36:55] You know what I mean? Like, yeah.

[00:36:57] Who knows if that means that she was like, yeah.

[00:37:00] And this I clearly wrote when I was in denial,

[00:37:02] like she could just be like, oh, this is a cool concept.

[00:37:05] Yeah. You know, exactly.

[00:37:08] 100 percent. And like, listen.

[00:37:12] She might have a lyric saying she doesn't want money on this album,

[00:37:15] but she does.

[00:37:16] And she is making money by doing these partnerships with Spotify

[00:37:19] and Apple Music, including all of the little pop ups she did

[00:37:24] like at the Grove and all the billboards with the QR codes

[00:37:27] just before the album came out of like

[00:37:30] it literally like, you know, in middle school, when you have a project

[00:37:32] to write a letter from the past and it's like, oh, I'm going to like

[00:37:35] stain the paper with tea and like burn the edges with the lighter

[00:37:39] to make it look old.

[00:37:40] It's like it was that.

[00:37:41] But with the Spotify logo on the bottom.

[00:37:43] And I saw someone like making a joke about it like, wow,

[00:37:47] this is like your queen.

[00:37:49] And I was like.

[00:37:50] Part of loving Taylor is that she is cringe.

[00:37:53] She is cringe and she is free.

[00:37:56] OK, is this my queen?

[00:37:59] Don't act like you haven't been there.

[00:38:01] OK, like if you are shocked by Taylor doing this,

[00:38:06] you don't know Taylor at all. You know.

[00:38:12] Oh, my God.

[00:38:13] Um, exactly.

[00:38:14] I was just like, it's fine if you think it's cringe and you don't like it.

[00:38:18] But it's like.

[00:38:19] That just means that you are not a Taylor Swift fan on any level,

[00:38:23] because a big part of it is being like, yeah, this is embarrassing,

[00:38:26] but it's fine.

[00:38:28] But it's also like she's living out her fantasy and it's fun.

[00:38:31] You know, whatever. Exactly.

[00:38:34] Egg. Exactly.

[00:38:37] Um, OK, that's all I put for the pre-release,

[00:38:40] because like that doesn't really matter that much.

[00:38:42] So let's get into post-release stuff. OK.

[00:38:46] So, um, so obviously she surprised everyone with the anthology version at 2am,

[00:38:53] the double album.

[00:38:54] It was heavily theorized that it would be a double album at 2am

[00:39:00] because there was a bunch of photos leading up to this,

[00:39:02] where was Taylor and various associates putting up like peace signs

[00:39:06] in the number, obviously number two.

[00:39:08] So people knew 2am something was going to happen.

[00:39:11] They were primed for it after midnight's had the 3am version

[00:39:15] with additional tracks.

[00:39:17] I don't think it was like that surprising at all.

[00:39:20] It was heavily theorized.

[00:39:21] And she will do anything before she releases reputation, Taylor's version.

[00:39:26] I don't know why, but she will.

[00:39:28] She'll never give it to us.

[00:39:29] I saw a theory online being like.

[00:39:33] It's starting to feel like 1989 Taylor time again,

[00:39:38] where like she was getting overexposed

[00:39:41] and people were like, yeah, and she's waiting until its peak

[00:39:43] that to re-release reputation.

[00:39:44] I'm sorry.

[00:39:45] That's I'm it's that's just so ridiculous.

[00:39:49] I've seen that theory a few times as well,

[00:39:50] but it's like Taylor has been on the record so many times

[00:39:54] about how miserable it was with like Snake Gate and like she

[00:40:00] literally hid in a suitcase to go in and out of her house

[00:40:02] for like a year.

[00:40:03] Like she hated it.

[00:40:04] It was like the most she's still writing songs about it on this album.

[00:40:08] Right? Like she hated she would never.

[00:40:12] Some people are saying she's purposefully doing this to get back to that.

[00:40:15] It's like she would never do that.

[00:40:16] No, but nobody would do that.

[00:40:18] Like that is not a way human beings behave.

[00:40:21] And I also just think like she it's very clear

[00:40:25] she she does care a lot what people think,

[00:40:28] even though she tries to say that she doesn't.

[00:40:30] That is like, well, it's all over her music.

[00:40:34] You know exactly like she like it's in the songs. Right.

[00:40:38] So it's just like I don't believe.

[00:40:41] I don't believe that that's the case.

[00:40:43] But I also didn't believe that she would release a new album

[00:40:45] before she finished the Aris tour.

[00:40:47] So either I was wrong, shook by that, like completely shook.

[00:40:52] I like is the playlist going to change before I see it in November?

[00:40:56] I have no idea, Kirsten.

[00:40:58] I'm so excited to see though.

[00:41:00] Yeah, I can't I can't wait till she heads to Europe,

[00:41:03] which is happening very soon

[00:41:05] so that we can see like the videos of all the surprise songs

[00:41:09] and also see if the playlist in general shifts and changes.

[00:41:13] So that would be pretty cool.

[00:41:17] She oh, they also added

[00:41:20] all of the songs from the Tortured Poets Department

[00:41:22] got added to the Apple Music playlist that we just talked about.

[00:41:27] So that's kind of interesting.

[00:41:29] The only thing I really wrote that was notable is that the song

[00:41:34] I Can Do It With a Broken Heart is not on the playlist.

[00:41:37] I can do it with a broken heart.

[00:41:38] It's on the I Love You It's Ruining My Life playlist, which is just like

[00:41:42] seems weird to me personally. But OK.

[00:41:48] Maybe she thought that like the lyric itself

[00:41:51] is different than like the vibe of the whole song.

[00:41:53] I mean. Is it?

[00:41:56] But maybe. OK.

[00:41:59] The other thing too is so I've taken down

[00:42:02] there's so many Easter eggs throughout all of the lyrics.

[00:42:05] There's so much lore to this that like I do think it's an album

[00:42:08] that someone who is more established as a Swifty in the online space

[00:42:12] might enjoy more than someone who is it because there's just so many more things

[00:42:16] to catch. And there are so many references to the nineteen seventy five

[00:42:19] throughout the album as well that I just didn't even write down

[00:42:22] because I don't care to because I hate Matty Healy's guts.

[00:42:26] OK, I also have to say this like I am going to be honest to everybody.

[00:42:31] I don't listen to the nineteen seventy five.

[00:42:34] I don't care about Matty Healy at all.

[00:42:38] I personally don't see what Taylor and all of his adoring fans.

[00:42:44] He has so many adoring fans like I personally don't see it.

[00:42:49] And I don't care enough.

[00:42:51] Like I'm now a 28 year old woman.

[00:42:52] I don't care enough to like go in and learn all the nineteen seventy five.

[00:42:57] Like I don't you know, I won the thing too is it's like after finding out

[00:43:03] all of the absolutely horrendous things he said and done over the years,

[00:43:08] it's like, well, now I don't care to go back and learn anything.

[00:43:11] Like there was one of the nineteen seventy five songs

[00:43:14] was like a viral TikTok sound last year.

[00:43:16] And I was like, oh, this is a good song.

[00:43:17] Maybe I'll look it up. I saw it by the nineteen seventy five.

[00:43:20] And I was like, no, I'm not contributing to them getting a penny

[00:43:23] because he's a bad person.

[00:43:25] So that's my personal opinion.

[00:43:29] Yeah, I don't even know enough about him.

[00:43:32] Oh, there's like it's it's disgusting, Maggie.

[00:43:35] Like some of the things that came out.

[00:43:38] Last year are just so truly horrendous that it's like,

[00:43:41] I don't want to spend the time to get to know this man or his discography.

[00:43:44] And you're in the right you're in the right space, not doing.

[00:43:47] I think that that's also like when I don't know when the like

[00:43:51] the fling was happening, I was like.

[00:43:56] This is Taylor, you know, like we've been here before, you know,

[00:43:59] so I wasn't like.

[00:44:02] And it is. Yeah, it's so on brand.

[00:44:06] For a young woman to get out of a long term relationship

[00:44:09] and then just date like the worst man you've ever seen.

[00:44:13] Like it just it happens. It's fine.

[00:44:16] I also have to say that, like this album recontextualizes.

[00:44:20] Yes. Of like everything.

[00:44:23] Like there's stuff from like folklore that I was like, what?

[00:44:29] There's a good theory going around that her and Joe were sort of on and off.

[00:44:34] You know, like, and I think that that it's only confirmed, but

[00:44:39] I feel like it's as close to confirmed as they can get

[00:44:42] based off the songwriting and the time and the albums and the songs are on.

[00:44:47] I feel like we can only be like, OK,

[00:44:49] so there was clearly like a little bit of back and forth.

[00:44:52] And, you know, like maybe when her and Joe were off,

[00:44:54] she was seeing Maddie on the side a little bit here and there.

[00:44:58] You know, like I don't know.

[00:45:00] I guess I can't.

[00:45:06] I yeah, I don't know.

[00:45:07] I guess it's just the idea of I I did like the song.

[00:45:13] I can fix him. No, really, I can.

[00:45:15] I like one of my top faves.

[00:45:17] I did like that song because while I.

[00:45:22] Wasn't sure that the storytelling that she told

[00:45:26] in a lot of the rest of the album was compelling enough for me

[00:45:29] to go along the journey with her of like liking this tortured man.

[00:45:36] I think the story that she told of like.

[00:45:40] And no, you just don't understand him like I do.

[00:45:43] And like, I, I, I, like, I'm not concerned about

[00:45:47] the things that you're concerned about, because like you,

[00:45:50] they're not even relevant to me, you know.

[00:45:53] And I think maybe that's as we're talking this out, I'm like

[00:45:57] also working out my feelings about the album.

[00:46:00] Like, I think maybe I, I have trouble going along the journey

[00:46:06] of her being like, and he was so sad and so cool.

[00:46:11] And it wasn't that amazing and crazy because I'm like,

[00:46:14] I don't know that that is.

[00:46:16] It's but the thing is, you have you have to think

[00:46:20] Maddie Healy might just have it like that, because most of this album

[00:46:24] seems to be about him and Halsey wrote a whole album about him as well.

[00:46:28] So like we don't know his influence.

[00:46:30] Maybe he smells incredible.

[00:46:32] I don't know.

[00:46:32] I, I like I it's not even about him, though.

[00:46:36] That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:46:37] Like the storytelling that she was giving sometimes I just had trouble

[00:46:42] like going into it with her because I was like.

[00:46:47] And what else?

[00:46:48] Yeah, about him.

[00:46:50] Exactly. Exactly right.

[00:46:53] One thing that I think is.

[00:46:55] Why yelled the most the most wild lyric on the whole thing.

[00:47:00] So in But Daddy, I love him.

[00:47:02] Taylor has a moment where she says, I'm having his baby.

[00:47:05] No, I'm not, but you should have seen your faces.

[00:47:07] And I think that is so cuckoo

[00:47:12] to be like part of this album at all, because like not that long ago

[00:47:16] in December, tree pain, Taylor's publicist went out

[00:47:21] and like was fighting Dumas on Maine for saying that Taylor had been secretly

[00:47:26] married or that there was a miscarriage in Taylor's like.

[00:47:30] Well, I'm just like it was only the secretly married.

[00:47:34] There was miscarriage stuff in there, too.

[00:47:36] And not not the Dumas did say some miscarriage stuff.

[00:47:41] They did not specify

[00:47:44] whether or not it was Taylor's or not.

[00:47:46] They said that the song bigger than the whole sky was written about a miscarriage.

[00:47:50] Yeah, which like I mean, maybe, but we don't know.

[00:47:53] But basically, like to get so upset about

[00:47:58] because like Dumas has been saying the secretly married stuff

[00:48:01] for like over a year and no one said anything.

[00:48:03] It wasn't until the bigger than the whole sky miscarriage

[00:48:06] connection was posted about the tree pain went on Maine.

[00:48:10] So like I can kind of.

[00:48:12] I think it's crazy to have a lyric joking about like a pregnancy.

[00:48:17] I think.

[00:48:20] That whole song, though, is

[00:48:25] I can't listen to that song, so I can't have a theory on it.

[00:48:28] It makes I cry every time.

[00:48:30] Really? Oh, yeah, I can't listen to it.

[00:48:33] It's like that one and like soon you'll get better

[00:48:36] are the only two guaranteed skips I've got the but daddy, I love him.

[00:48:41] Oh, no, but I love him. I like that's the oh, I thought you were talking

[00:48:44] about bigger than the whole sky. I see. I see. I'm so sorry.

[00:48:47] I thought we were talking about, but daddy, I love him because I think

[00:48:50] like this lyric I'm having his baby know I'm not, but you should have seen your faces like

[00:48:55] I love the story that she's telling in this song.

[00:49:00] Like there's a lot on this album.

[00:49:02] Like she's mad at the fans.

[00:49:04] Oh, she does not like the way that they reacted to the Maddie stuff.

[00:49:08] The crap that they gave him, like even like also.

[00:49:13] I'm sorry, too bad.

[00:49:15] Like she is like, it's oh, it's my good name to tarnish.

[00:49:18] Oh, it's like not your business what I do and the Y moms are still holding out.

[00:49:23] I'm sorry. Tough luck.

[00:49:25] You're a public figure.

[00:49:26] People are going to speculate and you should just let it lie

[00:49:30] because you're not going to stop them from speculating.

[00:49:32] Like it's fine that you're upset.

[00:49:35] I wouldn't love it either, but it's like.

[00:49:38] You can't put your whole life on stage

[00:49:43] and then think that people aren't going to have a reaction to it, right?

[00:49:48] Sure, I do think like there's a difference between

[00:49:52] people reacting and people writing like open letters to her,

[00:49:56] asking her not let them down and like to break up with her boyfriend.

[00:50:00] That was weird, but Maddie Healy should have like not gone on podcast

[00:50:03] and talked about the porn he was watching and like made racist comments

[00:50:06] about people, and maybe it would not have caused that sort of reaction.

[00:50:10] Look, I like I said, I you know,

[00:50:15] I don't care about Maddie Healy.

[00:50:17] I've never learned one thing about Maddie Healy consensually.

[00:50:20] I think I think that though.

[00:50:25] Like she I'm really interested in her exploring that in the album

[00:50:32] because it's something that she's never said before, ever publicly,

[00:50:36] that like she's never once said anything negative about her fans.

[00:50:41] Well, I can get is in Miss Americana when she's like,

[00:50:45] this is my front yard and there's a ton of fans there.

[00:50:47] She's like, I'm highly aware that this is not normal.

[00:50:51] And that's the closest to being mean to the fans she's ever been.

[00:50:54] And I think that like her saying,

[00:50:59] you know, but daddy, I love him and having that be the lyric in the song,

[00:51:05] because like that's what you say to your dad, who's like,

[00:51:09] he's not good for you.

[00:51:10] You know, and I think that it's like this idea that the fans are

[00:51:14] this weird authority figure in her life that is rebelling against.

[00:51:18] Like, I think that that is really fascinating and interesting.

[00:51:22] And like, I would love to hear her talk about that more in next album.

[00:51:27] Obviously, like, you know, that relationship with Maddie was so scrutinized.

[00:51:31] Like this relationship with Travis is now weirdly being put on a pedestal.

[00:51:36] I would love to hear her take on that.

[00:51:38] It's so weird.

[00:51:39] Again, we've lost the ability to act normal as a society.

[00:51:43] I and I think that like the fun that she's having,

[00:51:48] like poking fun at the fans in the song saying like, I'm having his baby.

[00:51:51] No, I'm not. But you should have seen your faces like

[00:51:53] she's like a little mischievous.

[00:51:56] It is mischievous.

[00:51:57] I just think it's.

[00:51:59] It's weird, because generally pregnancy is like not something to joke about.

[00:52:03] And then.

[00:52:05] She is mad that they're speculating, but then she's saying,

[00:52:08] I'm having a baby. No, I'm not.

[00:52:10] Haha, look at your face like, which is it?

[00:52:13] Which is it, girl? What do you want? Sure.

[00:52:19] Yeah. I should we talk about the Peter losing Wendy thing?

[00:52:25] Um, can we talk about one more thing for?

[00:52:28] Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course.

[00:52:30] There's also like, I don't want to talk about it,

[00:52:32] but like there's a lot of like suicide mentions in this album.

[00:52:36] And it's like, oh, that's concerning.

[00:52:38] So I hope she has good people around her.

[00:52:41] But basically, like we've already talked a lot about the Maddie Healy of it all.

[00:52:46] But this is one thing I tweeted it,

[00:52:48] but I haven't seen anyone else like express the specific thought.

[00:52:52] Is Maddie Healy the getaway car?

[00:52:56] Like, it's like I needed to leave. I wanted to leave him.

[00:52:59] I needed a reason.

[00:53:01] Like I or you're surprised I left.

[00:53:05] You will think about where you met me.

[00:53:06] Like, I just feel like Maddie might have been her getaway car

[00:53:09] for many relationships since 2014. There is.

[00:53:14] They first got together in 2014,

[00:53:17] and it does look like from blind items they dated at the time.

[00:53:20] But then maybe they knew each other before that,

[00:53:23] and we just don't know about it. And it was like back and forth.

[00:53:26] I think he's a getaway car.

[00:53:29] I have always assumed that the getaway car was like the Tom Hiddleston of it

[00:53:35] all because it was like so short lived. But you're right.

[00:53:38] It recontextualizes so much. I have no idea.

[00:53:41] I'm I would love to know,

[00:53:44] but I think that it's going to be a great mystery.

[00:53:46] Like it even could have been like maybe Tom Hiddleston was actually

[00:53:51] the getaway car for Maddie Healy, who she maybe saw on April 29th

[00:53:56] with when she was dating Calvin Harris.

[00:53:58] Like, I don't know.

[00:53:59] I exactly I have no idea.

[00:54:02] It's just as wild to me.

[00:54:05] Yeah, I think.

[00:54:08] So much of this, like the understanding,

[00:54:14] like there's a lyric in this album about like his scarlet

[00:54:19] maroon or something where it's clearly about Maddie.

[00:54:21] And I'm like, oh, my God, maroon is about Maddie.

[00:54:24] Like there's just so much that I feel like was missing

[00:54:29] from the timeline.

[00:54:30] Like there was always this like mystery love that she was writing about.

[00:54:36] And I feel like now we know.

[00:54:38] Well, yeah. And that's the thing, too.

[00:54:39] It's like. This changes a lot.

[00:54:43] This changes a lot of the theories.

[00:54:45] It doesn't change all of them for me, but it's involved for sure.

[00:54:50] It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:53] Um, I I'm down to come with you on the ride that Maddie's the getaway car.

[00:54:58] I I'm OK with that.

[00:55:00] You know, like I feel comfortable saying that that could be the case.

[00:55:04] It's yeah, it could be.

[00:55:05] I'm not I'm not going to say definitely.

[00:55:07] But there's also in Down Bad, there's the lyric.

[00:55:12] How dare you think it's romantic, leaving me safe and stranded?

[00:55:15] When in New Romantics from 1989, she says, please take my hand

[00:55:20] and please take me dancing. Please leave me stranded.

[00:55:22] It's so romantic.

[00:55:23] But we don't have any evidence that they knew each other before 1989 came out.

[00:55:27] So like, yeah, I don't think you could say both things are about Maddie,

[00:55:30] but it's definitely possible that you would use her earlier lyrics

[00:55:34] to be like, look, I've grown and matured.

[00:55:36] I actually won't think that's romantic anymore.

[00:55:38] And I also think that with Taylor, honestly, like

[00:55:42] it's not always cut and dry about one person or one experience.

[00:55:46] Like she's an artist. She writes about many things like

[00:55:49] there are clearly songs on here that are like mostly about one experience

[00:55:52] she's had and like maybe she thinks like a scenario and it is cool

[00:55:56] to like add to like, like I said, this album really does feel like

[00:56:01] I read her diary.

[00:56:02] Like I believe that it's mostly autobiographical.

[00:56:04] But of course, there's going to be stuff that's, you know.

[00:56:08] Tongue in cheek or turn a phrase or, you know,

[00:56:11] anyways, 100 percent like it's just like she is a poet.

[00:56:15] You can't expect that.

[00:56:17] Like I feel like some people are taking each song so literally.

[00:56:22] Yeah. And then some people are taking each song so out of context.

[00:56:26] And I'm like, there has to be a middle ground here where like

[00:56:29] some things are what they are and some things are illusions.

[00:56:32] And like, let's just analyze it together and have fun kind of.

[00:56:36] Exactly.

[00:56:38] Um, yeah.

[00:56:39] And then there's the there's also that like going from

[00:56:44] Are you ready for it to fresh out the slammer?

[00:56:46] Because then are you ready for it?

[00:56:47] She says he can be my jailer Burton to this Taylor,

[00:56:50] which is of course, reference to Elizabeth Taylor.

[00:56:53] Her great love.

[00:56:55] And then now, oh, she's out.

[00:56:56] She's fresh out the slammer and her first calls me Matty Healy. Crazy.

[00:57:01] Crazy.

[00:57:02] Um, OK, let's let's talk about Cardigan and Peter.

[00:57:07] So we all remember where we were when Taylor was on that

[00:57:13] air to airs to her stage singing Cardigan and mouthed

[00:57:16] this song is about you.

[00:57:17] You know who you are. I love you.

[00:57:20] The same phrase that Matty mouthed to one of his songs again.

[00:57:24] See, I don't even know like what song I can't even remember

[00:57:27] what song it was, but all happened around the same time right before

[00:57:30] this was on her Nashville era's tour when he had literally been in the Philippines

[00:57:34] and then Mr. Climate activist climbed on private jet

[00:57:37] to go see her show the very next day.

[00:57:40] So he like she's, you know, saying out loud basically to everybody.

[00:57:47] That's when everybody was like, can it be like, is it true?

[00:57:50] And I was like, obviously, it's true.

[00:57:52] You know, she's doing that like and also her doing that

[00:57:55] is the most tailor coded thing ever.

[00:57:57] I think that during this time, like there were a lot of new 50s

[00:58:01] that came in sort of during the folklore evermore era.

[00:58:05] And they don't they don't understand, you know, like they didn't

[00:58:07] they didn't understand the way that she is, you know, like she is wifey.

[00:58:12] She is hopeless romantic.

[00:58:13] She is grand gestures like her getting up on that stage is the least

[00:58:17] and doing that is the least surprising thing to me ever.

[00:58:21] And but the point is people pointed out

[00:58:25] that in the song cardigan, she says Peter losing Wendy.

[00:58:31] And she has a song on the album called Peter

[00:58:35] that she sings about Peter and Wendy.

[00:58:38] That's very clearly about Maddie.

[00:58:40] And it yeah, it talks about like, oh, you were in your lost boys.

[00:58:46] Like, I can't remember the specific layer,

[00:58:47] but it talks about like being with your lost boys.

[00:58:49] There's a specific lyric that said, you said you'd come get me.

[00:58:54] But you were 25 and Maddie Healy was 25 in fall of 2014

[00:58:58] when the first photos of Taylor wearing a 1975 shirt

[00:59:01] and Maddie wearing a 1989 Taylor Swift shirt were posted.

[00:59:07] And then the lyric in the song says

[00:59:09] you said you were going to grow up

[00:59:10] and then you were going to come find me.

[00:59:11] And it's like, well, he's grown now and they seem to find each other.

[00:59:15] The cardigan of it all,

[00:59:18] like very clearly being about him or having allusions to him in it,

[00:59:23] like blew my freaking mind person.

[00:59:28] I was like, but here, OK, here's my here's my thing, though, because.

[00:59:34] And this is my headcanon, and I'm sure other people have theorized

[00:59:37] similar things, but I just haven't seen it.

[00:59:39] So I'm not trying to like take credit or anything.

[00:59:41] But like when folklore and evermore came out in 2020, 2021, right?

[00:59:47] Taylor starts saying, oh, this time a lot of my songs

[00:59:51] are about fictional stories or they're not about me or they're like,

[00:59:54] I'm imagining other things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:59:57] And so people are like, OK, well, a lot of this is grounded in,

[01:00:00] you know, fiction in folklore.

[01:00:02] So we can't read into it as much.

[01:00:05] I think when folklore and evermore came out,

[01:00:08] Taylor and Joe were in a good spot in their relationship.

[01:00:13] And so she's not going to say, oh, these are based on my weird

[01:00:17] love triangle experience between Maddie Healy and Joel.

[01:00:20] And I think that like Betty and all of them is like.

[01:00:25] Maddie and and Joe, and she maybe flipped the genders around.

[01:00:29] Like, I don't know.

[01:00:31] Wow. It's just like

[01:00:34] like there's just so much more that we can think about right now.

[01:00:38] These have been contextualized as like, no, some of this is definitely

[01:00:41] based on her love life.

[01:00:42] And I'm getting the impression Maddie Healy and Taylor Swift

[01:00:47] kind of when they were single, they were together.

[01:00:49] And when they were in relationships, they were apart.

[01:00:52] And they have always had this thread connecting them for 10 years.

[01:00:56] Yeah. And I think Taylor in her heart of hearts.

[01:01:04] Maybe thought Maddie was like her person and that

[01:01:07] she's going to end up really.

[01:01:09] And then clearly, they don't work out that way.

[01:01:12] The album basically says that, like, and I think that that is part of it, too.

[01:01:17] It's like.

[01:01:20] The I wish.

[01:01:23] Perhaps that there had been more time

[01:01:28] taken with the crafting of this album and getting it out,

[01:01:32] because I think that the understanding

[01:01:35] that she probably eventually will come to

[01:01:40] of. That I thought that he was going to be my answer

[01:01:45] to this really long heartbreak, like I thought that like

[01:01:49] that was worth it because of this person and then this person

[01:01:51] ended up hurting me more like I would

[01:01:55] love songs about like that reflection, you know, versus like

[01:02:00] seven songs about the pain of

[01:02:04] your situationship not working out.

[01:02:06] You know what I mean?

[01:02:07] I also think it rings so genuine to me

[01:02:10] to be like lingering on the situation ship that's going to you over.

[01:02:14] Yeah, because that's like, as you said, and as we said before,

[01:02:18] but like Joan Taylor six year relationship, that's complicated.

[01:02:21] There's so much to discuss there.

[01:02:23] They definitely both did good and bad things in that relationship.

[01:02:26] And it doesn't seem like there's one bad guy in the relationship.

[01:02:30] Right. Versus OK.

[01:02:33] Well, this situation should have lasted for like a month and a half.

[01:02:35] And I was obsessed that you were my soul mate and you weren't.

[01:02:39] And you treated me kind of badly.

[01:02:41] And I'm mad at you for doing it, but also mad at myself

[01:02:44] for allowing it to happen.

[01:02:45] And that's just so much more cut and dry.

[01:02:47] I think a lot of people can relate to that. Like.

[01:02:51] I just think it is very genuine, but that's how people might feel.

[01:02:57] To the point where I'm like, I think LOML

[01:03:01] love of my life versus loss of my life.

[01:03:03] It could be about Maddie, not Joe.

[01:03:05] I think it probably is. Which is crazy.

[01:03:09] It shouldn't be.

[01:03:11] But but it gives me a little Maddie like love

[01:03:15] bomb tour and was talking about having a baby and getting married,

[01:03:18] even though they were just starting to get together.

[01:03:21] Like that's the vibe.

[01:03:22] Obviously, I'm not in the relationship, but that's what it seems like.

[01:03:25] Yeah. And you know, like sometimes.

[01:03:30] I mean, she says in her voice note about

[01:03:34] down bad, like she says, like you get love bombed by someone.

[01:03:37] It's like you've been abducted by aliens.

[01:03:39] Like she literally uses the term love bombed, I think.

[01:03:41] So like I believe she feels that way as well.

[01:03:45] But like absolutely brutal.

[01:03:47] Yeah, I mean, ridiculously brutal.

[01:03:50] And like. What

[01:03:54] what she went through there, I think, because like all of her hopes

[01:03:57] and dreams were kind of pinned on him.

[01:03:59] Yeah. And I think like.

[01:04:04] That clearly just like.

[01:04:07] I mean, we got we got the album.

[01:04:09] It's it's all there, you know. Exactly.

[01:04:15] Having a song called Clara Bow is very interesting because.

[01:04:20] Claire Bow had a lot of lesbian associates

[01:04:24] and there's a lot of bisexual rumors about Clara Bow,

[01:04:26] who was not able to be out based on the time that she was alive.

[01:04:29] And obviously, we've discussed it to death on this podcast.

[01:04:33] There's a lot of theories about Taylor's possibly being queer by

[01:04:37] some other identity versus simply straight.

[01:04:40] I do think a lot of songs on this album are like so straight.

[01:04:44] It's like almost annoying.

[01:04:45] But like there's still there's still some stuff for the Bylers in here.

[01:04:51] Yeah, I mean, I said what I thought.

[01:04:54] You don't agree with the theory and that's fine.

[01:04:57] Like, I just for me, I have to believe it

[01:05:02] because if she did all that shit during Lover about gay pride

[01:05:05] is what makes me me and put herself in the center of a gay pride parade.

[01:05:09] And she's not queer.

[01:05:10] She's just like literally the devil.

[01:05:12] And so I like her.

[01:05:13] So I have to believe that she's by for that reason.

[01:05:16] And I do believe that since she did all that,

[01:05:20] she kind of opened the door for people speculating on it.

[01:05:22] So that's my opinion.

[01:05:24] I know not everyone agrees with that.

[01:05:27] It's fine. We don't have to discuss it.

[01:05:28] I just thought it was interesting that you name this on Clara Bo, who is like.

[01:05:33] Not really a reference a lot of people are going to get.

[01:05:37] Yeah, I haven't got it.

[01:05:40] I haven't listened to that one as many times.

[01:05:42] I think I only listen to that one twice,

[01:05:44] and I've seen a lot of discussion about it online,

[01:05:46] and I need to go back in.

[01:05:48] I like I like the song, but I find it very unsettling

[01:05:52] when she says her own name towards the end of the song,

[01:05:55] where she says, like, you look like Taylor Swift in this light.

[01:05:58] We're loving it.

[01:05:59] You've got edge. She never did.

[01:06:02] I'm like. It's I like when they say the name of the movie in the movie,

[01:06:06] but I didn't like when Taylor Swift said her own name in the song.

[01:06:09] It was just on cannot.

[01:06:11] I didn't like it. It was just unsettling to work, of course.

[01:06:14] I don't know. I think that it's really though,

[01:06:16] like she's written so much about how she's like worried that her star

[01:06:19] is going to dim and, you know, all of these things.

[01:06:22] Like it's something that she's genuinely scared of.

[01:06:24] And I think that it's a really interesting way to to

[01:06:30] express that emotion, you know, like I do.

[01:06:33] Like I think that that song rating is very clever.

[01:06:35] And yes, yeah, it is.

[01:06:38] But then you look at she wrote The Lucky One,

[01:06:40] which is all about escaping from it all.

[01:06:42] And it's like I don't know.

[01:06:44] I guess maybe she thought she wanted to escape.

[01:06:46] And then when she was out of the public eye and all of that, it was not the same.

[01:06:50] She also was largely out of the public eye during COVID

[01:06:54] when we were all locked in our home.

[01:06:55] So it's not like a normal experience of life.

[01:06:58] So yeah, I just was out of the public eye because like she felt

[01:07:02] she had been forced into hiding.

[01:07:04] And I think, you know, I think that there's her feelings on that.

[01:07:08] I would love to hear her talk a little bit more about that.

[01:07:12] Like, that's what I thought Fresh Out the Slammer was going to be about.

[01:07:15] Like, I thought that she was going to talk more about, like,

[01:07:17] her mixed feelings about hiding away and, you know, like, yeah,

[01:07:21] I would love to hear, like through her art, more expression of that.

[01:07:27] But instead it was like, I'm out of jail and I'm going to go

[01:07:30] have sex with Maddie Healy now because nothing is stopping me.

[01:07:33] I was like, oh, that's not what I thought this would be.

[01:07:36] But OK. Yeah.

[01:07:39] There's also a song called Thank You, Amy,

[01:07:41] where the K, I and M are capitalized to indicate Kim.

[01:07:45] The song mentions a spray tanned statue to indicate Kim Kardashian.

[01:07:52] And I'm just like, I like this.

[01:07:54] The song is fine.

[01:07:55] I think it's going to be really funny when Northwest is like singing it

[01:07:59] to Kim Kardashian because she is like a mean child,

[01:08:03] which like we're all mean children at that age.

[01:08:07] But I'm like, where are we really still doing this?

[01:08:11] Her mom wished Kim was dead.

[01:08:14] Yeah, I mean, that's great.

[01:08:15] Mad. She's still mad.

[01:08:18] She I mean, I guess if I had a daughter

[01:08:20] and she was leaving her house in a suitcase for a year,

[01:08:23] I'd be mad at the person who started that.

[01:08:25] Oh, my mom would have said worse stuff.

[01:08:28] Yeah. You're me.

[01:08:29] Listen, my mom might have killed her herself. So

[01:08:34] I can't say anything about that.

[01:08:36] Some other news, the Black Dog is a pub and the owner went on TV

[01:08:42] either yesterday or today and literally confirmed that Joe Allman goes there.

[01:08:46] And now today, the bar is like so mobbed with Swifties.

[01:08:50] It can't operate normally.

[01:08:55] But I.

[01:08:57] I think the nice thing to do would have been to choose the name of a pub

[01:09:01] that is not real or like make up a pub.

[01:09:04] But I think maybe, listen, Taylor said, I can never give you peace.

[01:09:08] And I think she was doing that to a place to all of us so he couldn't go back.

[01:09:13] They still kind of think that song might be about Maddie Healy.

[01:09:18] Um, she says her rain soaked body was shaking

[01:09:23] and like he was at her rain show in Boston, like, I don't know.

[01:09:26] I I don't know. I think that like, and also like,

[01:09:31] I don't know. It doesn't really matter.

[01:09:33] Yeah, I don't know.

[01:09:35] I we genuinely we don't know, but people think it might be about Joe.

[01:09:42] All it said to me was that Joe likes the band, The Starting Line,

[01:09:45] which means he's an elder emo like myself.

[01:09:47] It's the first time I've ever felt anything but neutrality towards Joe Allman.

[01:09:51] The reason also that I was like, I thought this was about Maddie.

[01:09:54] Like there's apparently like a cover of him doing it online,

[01:09:57] like the 1975 doing a cover of The Starting Line.

[01:10:00] It's I mean, I like that could be a reference for it could be about both of them, right?

[01:10:06] We don't know. But like a band like the 1975 covering a starting line song is

[01:10:13] like the most expected thing I could possibly imagine.

[01:10:16] I can't think of anything else that I would expect more than that.

[01:10:20] But they might both like the start. Maybe she has a type.

[01:10:22] Maybe she likes the starting line and she gets everyone into it.

[01:10:24] I don't know.

[01:10:25] Mm hmm.

[01:10:26] Um, what did you think about people getting up in arms about

[01:10:32] I'm going to get you back versus get him back by Olivia Rodrigo this weekend?

[01:10:36] Did you see it?

[01:10:37] Yeah, I think that that's ridiculous.

[01:10:38] They're completely different songs.

[01:10:40] It's like they're sonically different.

[01:10:42] The vibe is completely different.

[01:10:43] The thing is and I agree, I don't think that they're anything alike.

[01:10:47] And I think Olivia did it better because I think it's more of like a vibe

[01:10:51] for a young person being petty than like a grown woman to have.

[01:10:55] But I can see the upset because of on Olivia's first album

[01:11:01] with Deja Vu when she was for sale, Taylor writing credits

[01:11:04] and presumably a bunch of money because of the scream yelling

[01:11:07] during the course sounding like Cruel Summer.

[01:11:10] I have never once listened to Deja Vu and thought about Cruel Summer.

[01:11:13] Like, I don't think it sounds sonically like all.

[01:11:16] At all.

[01:11:16] I am going to push back on you.

[01:11:19] She did not have to give Taylor songwriting credit for that.

[01:11:23] Apparently, they just did.

[01:11:25] They Haley Williams pushed about

[01:11:30] what's it called? The Good For You.

[01:11:32] So they gave songwriting credit to Haley Williams on that.

[01:11:35] They had already given Taylor songwriting credit for New Year's Day

[01:11:39] and they interpolated it.

[01:11:41] And Jack did an interview where he said like it was really unexpected.

[01:11:46] He had no idea.

[01:11:47] Just like one day, his lawyer got the email that they were giving him

[01:11:51] and Taylor and then the other person who wrote that with him.

[01:11:54] Songwriting credit for Cruel Summer.

[01:11:57] So I personally don't I I'm going to push back on you saying

[01:12:02] she was forced to do that.

[01:12:03] Maybe she was by the people in charge, but I don't think that there was like

[01:12:08] there's clearly something that went on there.

[01:12:09] But I'm not ready to say like it was she was bullied by Taylor.

[01:12:14] I didn't say she was bullied, but like something definitely happened

[01:12:18] where two years ago,

[01:12:21] Olivia Rodrigo is doing like a song association video

[01:12:24] and every single song she lists as Taylor Swift.

[01:12:27] And now she does not talk about Taylor's whatsoever

[01:12:30] when she used to be like a huge 50s.

[01:12:31] Like I think more happened behind the scenes and maybe I don't know.

[01:12:36] I don't think Taylor wants to be perceived as a bad guy.

[01:12:39] So I don't think we'll ever know the full extent.

[01:12:41] And like maybe Taylor isn't a bad guy.

[01:12:43] Maybe nothing happened.

[01:12:44] But like it's weird when someone goes from being

[01:12:47] literally like the biggest fan of your music to you.

[01:12:52] Bringing on a rising star,

[01:12:54] but like that person's nemesis at one time to open a huge leg of your tour

[01:12:59] as well, like it's it's interesting with the Sabrina Carpenter of it all.

[01:13:05] I don't know if this we don't have to get into conspiracy since fine.

[01:13:09] Um, the funniest thing I've seen since the album came out

[01:13:13] was Taylor Swift liked an Instagram post that included.

[01:13:17] She liked the post.

[01:13:18] She liked she liked this post.

[01:13:20] I couldn't find the screenshot.

[01:13:22] I have a bookmarked on Twitter somewhere, but like it literally shows

[01:13:25] Taylor's like this post is a bunch of real.

[01:13:28] I'm pretty sure.

[01:13:29] I'm pretty sure it was real, but it could have been fake.

[01:13:31] I my media literacy is at an all time low.

[01:13:34] So take those with a grain of salt.

[01:13:35] But there's a post that was on Instagram.

[01:13:38] And it was the like Abby Miller dance bombs, like pyramid meme.

[01:13:43] Miracle, she liked it.

[01:13:44] And it's all of Taylor's exes.

[01:13:46] So the bottom row says Calvin Harris, Joe Alwyn, Jake Gyllenhaal, Maddie Healy.

[01:13:50] The middle row says Taylor Lautner, Tom Hiddleston, Harry Styles.

[01:13:53] The top says Travis Kelsey and allegedly Taylor liked.

[01:13:57] Oh, my God, that is if she did actually do that.

[01:14:01] She is truly letting chaos reign supreme.

[01:14:03] Yes, she is. Oh, she 100 percent is.

[01:14:07] That is crazy.

[01:14:08] Yeah, she might not have actually liked it.

[01:14:10] You're right. My media literacy is not always the best.

[01:14:14] But it's also like sometimes the stuff like this.

[01:14:17] I just want to believe it's so bad that I'm just like,

[01:14:19] I don't care if it's fake. To me, it's real.

[01:14:23] It was rare. I was there.

[01:14:24] I remember it all too well.

[01:14:26] And, you know, like they're like I said, there is some stuff

[01:14:29] like you being like something going on between Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor.

[01:14:32] I'm like, la, la, la, la, la, la.

[01:14:34] No, no, no.

[01:14:36] You know, I'm like, I'm not ready.

[01:14:37] I'm not ready to hear that. I'm not.

[01:14:40] I don't think she's trying to kill her or anything.

[01:14:44] I have my parasocial relationship with Taylor.

[01:14:47] Let me have it.

[01:14:48] I would never try to take it away from you.

[01:14:50] I would never.

[01:14:53] Also, articles have been coming out that like

[01:14:56] because Taylor's doing a lot of pap walks again, very 1989 era.

[01:14:59] And a lot of these photos

[01:15:04] you will see references to her song titles.

[01:15:09] In October, we saw her wearing a claw clip from Anthropologie.

[01:15:12] The clip was part of a three piece set called the Amy claw clip hair set.

[01:15:16] Amy spelled the same way it is in the swan title.

[01:15:20] The following month, there's a photo of her with Gracie Abrams in New York.

[01:15:24] And she's wearing a green YSL bag, which is called the Cassandra bag.

[01:15:29] And then in January, she was wearing black boots by the Row,

[01:15:36] which are called the Robin leather Chelsea boots,

[01:15:39] which there's a song called Robin.

[01:15:42] Wow. So it's like, like she's.

[01:15:46] She that the one thing like I do fully believe that that was on purpose

[01:15:50] because the only thing like she very specifically has said

[01:15:54] she had these strikes in clothing. Right.

[01:15:56] And so I do think that that's on purpose.

[01:16:00] Taylor. Wow.

[01:16:02] I am like, I didn't know.

[01:16:04] I like I said, I am huge, Swifty.

[01:16:06] I didn't know that.

[01:16:08] I think this I just started seeing these articles today.

[01:16:11] So I think more will probably come out to.

[01:16:13] Yeah, I also think like all of these Easter eggs, like I said,

[01:16:16] I feel like I'm like top level, Swifty, like I remember stuff like

[01:16:21] I remember the Duma timeline pretty, pretty clearly.

[01:16:26] And I don't remember,

[01:16:30] like I remember it a little differently than the way you described it, Kirsten.

[01:16:34] But like mostly because I listened to do much podcast to.

[01:16:39] Sorry, I never be me.

[01:16:41] No, I could never be like anyone I've ever talked to.

[01:16:45] No, I know people who listen.

[01:16:46] I know I know someone who pays the subscriber fee

[01:16:48] to see her subscriber only.

[01:16:50] So don't feel bad. Don't feel bad about the podcast.

[01:16:53] But like I feel like I know everything that's going on, like that I need to.

[01:16:58] Like, I feel like I know lyrics.

[01:17:00] I know storytelling.

[01:17:02] I know like all but like the Easter eggs, it just is overwhelming.

[01:17:05] So it's too much.

[01:17:07] It's it's simply too much.

[01:17:08] It's like, oh, and she changed her nail polish on this finger

[01:17:12] to orange at this point of the tour.

[01:17:13] So karma is the album karma is coming out.

[01:17:16] It's real and it's coming.

[01:17:17] I'm like. OK, like as long as not one guy on TikTok says it to me,

[01:17:23] I'll believe him because he just seems to know all the facts.

[01:17:26] I think I'm like one level deeper than you,

[01:17:30] just because I'm a crazy person and I'm like, yes, get me the red thread.

[01:17:34] Like, let me tie it to all the photos.

[01:17:36] I think that like that's the fun of it, right?

[01:17:38] Like, it's so fun to theorize.

[01:17:40] It's like if you like puzzles or like escape rooms,

[01:17:43] like this is totally the, you know, the fun thing.

[01:17:47] It's like a fun activity.

[01:17:49] You know, I don't blame anybody.

[01:17:51] I just think that I have never been able to really get into it

[01:17:55] because I'm not very good at puzzles.

[01:17:57] I'm very good, though, at analyzing people's.

[01:18:02] Words and what wondering what they will feel like or, you know,

[01:18:07] so that's why I'm like super into.

[01:18:10] It's so fun.

[01:18:11] It's just it's just fun.

[01:18:13] Like Sasha and I will often talk in the podcast, but like,

[01:18:17] oh, we want to bring conspiracy theories back,

[01:18:19] like fun conspiracy theories back, because it's like

[01:18:21] conspiracy theories used to be like a fun thing to kind of joke around about.

[01:18:24] And now you've got people out here who genuinely believe that like birds

[01:18:28] aren't real and a bunch of other way worse.

[01:18:31] Yeah, it's like, well, that's not fun anymore.

[01:18:34] No. So it's to me, the Swifty like Easter eggs is like

[01:18:39] the type of conspiracy theory you can engage with without like

[01:18:42] inevitably going down, like that woman who made like the pipeline

[01:18:46] of how evil conspiracy theories get.

[01:18:47] It's like the stuff you want.

[01:18:49] I don't think are on that pipeline.

[01:18:50] So I think it's fine.

[01:18:51] Mm hmm. Agree.

[01:18:56] Do you have any other thoughts about the album or anything

[01:18:59] that you want to get out there before we we close the pod?

[01:19:03] I think the only thing that I really want to say is like

[01:19:07] case you couldn't tell by this podcast, I really love her.

[01:19:12] I'm very proud of her for doing this.

[01:19:16] She's very meaningful to me.

[01:19:18] And like the girls that get to get it and the girls that don't don't.

[01:19:21] And I'm not going to, you know, like come for any of the people who don't.

[01:19:25] But like Taylor Swift as an artist

[01:19:28] is very meaningful to me personally.

[01:19:32] So thank you for letting me come on and talk about this.

[01:19:34] And I'm really excited to listen to the album more, have it grow on me.

[01:19:40] You know, I think that my like I said, she's very meaningful to me.

[01:19:44] But I do have like hopefully he I mean,

[01:19:47] this is an hour and 15 minutes of me being incredibly parasocial.

[01:19:51] But also like a more healthy artistic view of it,

[01:19:58] of her work and what she produces, because

[01:20:03] I think that with appreciating an artist's triumphs, like

[01:20:08] nobody can exclusively produce triumphs, you know?

[01:20:13] And just because it's not a triumph doesn't mean that it's not

[01:20:16] incredibly meaningful work and important in many different ways.

[01:20:19] And maybe for her personally and, you know, as a fan,

[01:20:23] I feel like this makes me feel closer to her.

[01:20:26] I hope I'm really I mean, she probably didn't want that.

[01:20:29] She probably didn't want us to feel closer to her in this way.

[01:20:32] But yet here we are.

[01:20:33] No, I mean, I think that like her feeling

[01:20:37] like she wanted to say even the things that she said and like,

[01:20:41] you know, but Daddy, I love him.

[01:20:44] I think that she was more willing to be more raw than she's ever been

[01:20:48] willing to be, even like beyond just being like, I'm so sad and being like,

[01:20:53] yeah, and sometimes you guys really cross the line and it sucks

[01:20:56] and you drive people away from me.

[01:20:58] And I feel like I don't need any help with that.

[01:21:00] You know, like I very true.

[01:21:02] I think that like her saying.

[01:21:06] Saying things that she maybe lyrically did not feel comfortable

[01:21:10] to say or danced around more

[01:21:13] is an exciting part of the album.

[01:21:16] Yes, and I the last thing I'm going to say,

[01:21:19] because I just remembered this, this drove me a little bit up

[01:21:22] the wall when I was listening.

[01:21:23] So there's a lyric in But Daddy, I love him about like the wine moms waiting.

[01:21:28] I'm just like, girl, wine moms are your age now.

[01:21:32] Like she's acting like wine moms are like.

[01:21:36] 30 years older than her.

[01:21:37] I'm like, you are a woman in your early to mid 30s.

[01:21:40] There are a lot of wine moms that are in your demographic.

[01:21:43] And so it's weird to talk about them.

[01:21:46] As if they're not your peers.

[01:21:48] It. Yeah, and I think, though, like that song.

[01:21:54] Oh, I'm like, we need to have a I need to listen to it more

[01:21:58] and have a more of a postmortem on it, because I'm like,

[01:22:01] I do also think that song was very clearly written during a snapshot of time

[01:22:05] when she was like, I can fix him.

[01:22:09] Screw you. You don't even know you're making him scared of me.

[01:22:13] Stop doing that.

[01:22:14] You know, and like, yeah.

[01:22:16] Oh, there was even a thing where like

[01:22:19] one of his shows shortly after they split, where he like spray painted

[01:22:23] sorry on something during the show and people like, oh my God,

[01:22:26] he was apologizing to her.

[01:22:28] OK, he probably was.

[01:22:30] He literally eats raw steak on stage during his performance.

[01:22:33] I don't know that we need to read everything, every little thing he does.

[01:22:38] Yeah, but he probably was given like everything that we now know.

[01:22:41] Maybe he was.

[01:22:43] I don't think he's really sorry about it, but that's just me.

[01:22:50] That's just my attitude is fine.

[01:22:53] OK, sorry, I think I spoke over you there.

[01:22:55] Is there was there something else you were saying about that?

[01:22:57] No, just thanks for letting me come on and talk about it.

[01:23:01] I love Taylor and

[01:23:05] I am so grateful that she continues to produce music for us

[01:23:09] to consume and enjoy. And yeah,

[01:23:13] yes. Do you have time for a short anonymous?

[01:23:15] Yes, of course.

[01:23:17] OK, I felt like this one was very tortured poets, department coded.

[01:23:22] OK, so our messenger says

[01:23:27] when my brother was in his freshman year of high school,

[01:23:30] I found quite a few rough drafts of a letter that he was trying to write.

[01:23:33] He kept messing it up.

[01:23:34] He was using pen, so we had to keep like throwing them away.

[01:23:38] They don't still have a picture of the letter,

[01:23:40] so they're paraphrasing here.

[01:23:41] But at one point, that means they did have a photo of the letter,

[01:23:44] which I love. That's just like peak older sibling.

[01:23:48] And it was a love letter,

[01:23:50] basically saying that this girl that he was writing to, like,

[01:23:53] oh, he makes him he she makes him better

[01:23:56] because he uses less swear words and he's around her.

[01:24:01] But like she was his second choice.

[01:24:04] And also that he only carries a pocket knife for protection.

[01:24:08] He's not a Russian terrorist.

[01:24:11] This boy was adopted from Russia.

[01:24:14] So it must have been like a joke, though, he's a terrorist,

[01:24:17] which is like not cool.

[01:24:18] That's giving it a cool

[01:24:21] exactly like grade nine.

[01:24:23] I see it. It all adds up to me.

[01:24:25] And our messenger and her mom still joke about this letter

[01:24:28] to this day, which is like your poor brother.

[01:24:32] I know. Let him live.

[01:24:34] My God. Leave your siblings emotional love life feelings alone.

[01:24:40] Oh, it is so funny.

[01:24:42] That is really that is really good.

[01:24:44] And I'm glad you did pick that one because that is very tortured.

[01:24:47] Poets. You probably wrote it on his typewriter.

[01:24:50] Who uses a typewriter?

[01:24:52] No, like literally,

[01:24:54] I saw a picture of Maddie Healy with a duffel bag.

[01:24:57] And someone is like the typewriters in there.

[01:24:59] I just maybe that's also like part of the block

[01:25:03] that I have with some of it, because she's like, this guy was so cool.

[01:25:06] He did this and this and this.

[01:25:08] And it's like listing everything that is deeply cringe to me about like a man.

[01:25:12] But it's the thing where it's like she's also like, wow,

[01:25:15] you were in your job as witness suit. Who is that guy?

[01:25:18] It's like dead. He's already dead.

[01:25:21] Yeah, I mean, no, she is like she's mad.

[01:25:25] The second half, like she's mad.

[01:25:28] And I love feminine rage, so I love it.

[01:25:32] But I also like I like the first half to a lot of people were not

[01:25:36] loving Jack Antonov's like since they're like, wow,

[01:25:40] it's a lot of memes of like Taylor being like, I want to kill myself.

[01:25:43] And then it'll be like Jack.

[01:25:44] And then it's like someone on like a like one of the boards.

[01:25:48] Like, I don't care. I like it.

[01:25:49] I like Jack Antonov.

[01:25:51] I loved Fun, which was his second band, not his first band.

[01:25:56] And so I've been a Jack Antonov fan much longer than I've been a Taylor Swift fan.

[01:26:01] So I just simply can't relate to that.

[01:26:03] Oh, no, I love Jack.

[01:26:05] And, you know, I had the moment that I think a lot of people

[01:26:08] had on this album where they were like, she should just take a break

[01:26:10] from Jack and collaborate with someone else.

[01:26:12] I have that moment when I heard the 1989 Volt tracks.

[01:26:16] But then silly me, like I said,

[01:26:19] it's all I listen to.

[01:26:21] Like that's why I'm like, oh, God, Maggie, your opinion now is going

[01:26:24] to change so much, you know, like I literally when the 1989

[01:26:27] Volt tracks came out, I was like, screw this.

[01:26:29] This is so stupid.

[01:26:30] I'm just going to I might as well just listen to melodrama.

[01:26:33] If I, you know, like this is like nothing whatever.

[01:26:35] And it's all like I said, is it over now is definitely my number one.

[01:26:39] Listen to probably the whole year.

[01:26:41] I don't listen to it over now in a minute.

[01:26:43] I've been trying to branch out.

[01:26:46] And listen to a little less Taylor Swift,

[01:26:48] because my day list on Spotify were like 95 percent Taylor Swift songs.

[01:26:54] And I was like, I would like for these lists

[01:26:56] to be an opportunity for me to find new music.

[01:26:58] So I'm going to like like I've been going out of my way

[01:27:01] to listen to other things as well that I really love.

[01:27:04] And like I've gone a lot more into Renee rap and Sabrina Carpenter.

[01:27:09] I've been listening to a lot of hosier

[01:27:11] Chappell Rowan, obviously.

[01:27:14] My girl, I told you all last week.

[01:27:17] She's still mostly just on the gay people's Spotify list.

[01:27:20] But like she's about to be everywhere.

[01:27:23] So this is like the last moment where you can claim to be a cry.

[01:27:29] No, I remember in the fall, like so her album came out in August.

[01:27:33] And it was like October.

[01:27:35] And I would listen to it on the train.

[01:27:38] And I was like, it's 2 p.m.

[01:27:40] and I'm going to pick up a child from school.

[01:27:42] Like, I can't be sitting here like getting hot like Papa John.

[01:27:46] Like I was like, it's too it's too

[01:27:50] for the train hour.

[01:27:52] Like it's too I'm too hot to know.

[01:27:56] Last week, one day I was driving to a 7 a.m.

[01:27:58] spin class just like.

[01:28:04] Oh, my God, no, I love her.

[01:28:06] But yeah, so it's basically like this is like the pinnacle of the last moment.

[01:28:10] I think that people can get into Chappell Rowan and be like,

[01:28:13] you were a semi early adopter.

[01:28:15] So like get in before the bandwagon is gone

[01:28:19] because like we're all we're all headed.

[01:28:22] It's fine.

[01:28:23] No, I think that is enough for this episode of M.S.

[01:28:27] Magnets. Thank you so much for joining me, Maggie.

[01:28:31] It was so great to have another Swifty to break all this down with.

[01:28:35] Can you let the listeners know where else they can find you

[01:28:38] if they are so inclined?

[01:28:39] Yes, you can find me on Tiktok and Instagram at M.L.

[01:28:43] Morgan underscore.

[01:28:45] I'm there if you also love Taylor, send a little message.

[01:28:50] Yeah, I think that that's mostly what I've got going on right now.

[01:28:53] I popped in and out of BB can a little bit, but

[01:28:58] trying to watch when I can.

[01:29:00] But, you know, it's without feeds.

[01:29:02] It's tough to. Yeah.

[01:29:04] But yes, that's what I've been up to.

[01:29:07] Amazing. And if you would like to hear more from me,

[01:29:10] you can follow me everywhere at Kirsten said what you can also listen.

[01:29:14] Coming soon, there will be an episode on the hot dummies

[01:29:17] on Island Speed of Jenny Autumn and myself breaking down

[01:29:19] the first couple episodes of Lovers and Liars, which is the F.

[01:29:22] Boy Island spin off should just be F.

[01:29:24] Girl Island, but I guess they're not calling it that.

[01:29:28] So that's super fun.

[01:29:29] And if you like romance novels, you can go over to the ready

[01:29:32] to be romanced podcast where I talk to Tori about book lovers

[01:29:36] by Emily Henry, which is my favorite book.

[01:29:39] And you can get into that as well.

[01:29:41] Sasha will be back next week.

[01:29:42] You can follow her everywhere.

[01:29:43] Fun size underscore oh four.

[01:29:45] You could also listen to the below deck podcast over on the Bravo TV.

[01:29:48] Rahap of speed as well as listen.

[01:29:51] She has a lot of appearances.

[01:29:52] She's on the 90 day last week.

[01:29:54] She's covering lots of things.

[01:29:56] Go follow Sasha and find everything there.

[01:29:58] But her and I will be back next week with more

[01:30:01] mess celebrity gossip, and it will actually be our 100th episode.

[01:30:05] So definitely stay tuned for that.

[01:30:08] In the meantime, you can leave us a five star rating and review

[01:30:11] on your podcatcher of choice, which really helps people find the show.

[01:30:15] If you've already done so, maybe tell a friend about the show

[01:30:18] and they'll listen and that would be really helpful too.

[01:30:21] And you can also submit your anonymous to tiny world that com slash mess

[01:30:26] magnets. We are low on anonymous.

[01:30:29] So please, if you've got gossip, send it in.

[01:30:33] We will see you next week.

[01:30:35] Bye.